Hello FlightGear UK

31 Oct 2015 20:54 #26302 by cobe571
Greetings all.

I introduce myself: my name is Patrizio. I'm 44. I come from Italy. In few years using FlightGear FS I haven't found in my country so many people really interested in developing airplanes for FGFS itself. The largest part are into FSX, XPlane, P3D and other simulators... So I have to look elsewhere cause of my focus, and I took your door. I like this Community that looks very active and prolific. I like to create 3D models too. I have enough experience with Blender and many other 3D and 2D tools. I especially like to model planes as many of you. I can model anything with a simple at the same time accurate topology. I have a bit of experience with the creation of FDM's for FlightGear Flight Simulator. I learn'd more from other developers I knew in my path than from documantation itself. So a bit of JSBSim and some Yasim. Still learning, still Not expert with the creation of a good FDM... Anyway - I'm not a real pilot either I'm not an engeneer. I want to learn, grow and contribute. There's some Airplanes I tried to develop into FlightGear Community in the past few years alone and with other contributors.

Boeing - Bird Of Prey (I thought to add the instruments and good interiors - Not present ATM)
sites.google.com/site/cobe571data03/home...d-of-Prey-splash.png

Lockheed U-2S (A project I remastered with other developers. Actually dead - Same things as said before. Plus I want to add other versions)
sites.google.com/site/cobe571data03/home.../U-2S-SkunkWorks.PNG

Alenia C-27J Spartan (A new entry for FG... I like the FDM but It miss instruments doors that open close etc)
sites.google.com/site/cobe571data03/home...tan/C-27J-splash.png

Fiat G-91R4 (An airplane I love as myself... I want to continue the journey)
sites.google.com/site/cobe571data03/home...AT-G-91R4-Splash.png

MMC-XBlades6 (A Fictional Racer I create for myself cause I never had a real airplane so I thought about a racer good in aerobatics)
sites.google.com/site/cobe571data03/home...Rendering.blend5.png

Many Other Airplanes waiting...

I hope to find so many people interested into the development of awesome aircrafts for FlightGear, and I think is the right place.

Thank you for the reading time.

Best regards,

Patrizio M.

Even if I have no idea where I’m going or how to get there, I prefer to say yes, instead of no, and learn along the way
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01 Nov 2015 00:34 #26306 by StuartC
Hi and welcome to FGUK.
aircraft development is only part of what goes on here. we do other fun stuff as well.
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01 Nov 2015 02:18 #26307 by cobe571
Hello StuartC,

thank you really much for your kindly words. I'm here cause I found very nice and useful stuff. That means alot of fun for me. An example of fun stuff is the really nice "Precious Metal" By Dave Culp. I used to start my initial FDM for my fictional aerobatic "XBlades6" just from his airplane, cause it use the same double counter propeller. Later I evaluated a better solution for the propellers animation, that I want to share. The "Panavia Tornado", the "TSR2", and many others are awesome. Here's a lot to learn and I'm glad to have so much fun on such type of things. I saw you join on virtual flying meetings to have fun togheter. I would like to join your squad sometimes.

Thanks again

Even if I have no idea where I’m going or how to get there, I prefer to say yes, instead of no, and learn along the way
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01 Nov 2015 09:28 #26309 by enrogue
Hi Patrizio & welcome

I actually built a working YASim FDM for the Boeing Bird of Prey using your 3d model, which I grabbed from Blendswap - I had seen a video of yours flying but couldn't find a download anywhere so I built my own. I wanted to see if I could get something as weird looking as the YF-118 to fly (it's US numerical designation) with the shape & the data that is published (very little aside from some development descriptions).

looking forward to working with you!
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01 Nov 2015 13:41 #26319 by thebroons
Wlcome Cobe571!

Glad you found our wee slice of the internet, and are up for fun times and maybe some development too!

Godetevi il lato folle della vita Flightgear!

;)

G

Any stairway is a stairway to heaven if you’re clumsy enough.
If your shirt isn’t tucked into your pants, your pants are tucked into your shirt.
Your stomach thinks all potatoes are mashed.
Most of the sky is actually below your feet.
The object of golf is to play the least amount of golf.

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01 Nov 2015 13:44 #26320 by J Maverick 16
Ciao Patrizio and welcome,
Welcome to FGUK, which is undoubtely the most active community in FGFS ;) .
I'm an Italian too, and I think the first joining FGUK.
Looks like you've done such a lot of work regarding aircrafts... thanks for posting 'em here.
Hope to see you soon in the skies of EGOD and around the world with us on saturday evening ;) .
Saluti e di nuovo benvenuto,
Mav

Breakin' the sound barrier every day!
Oh God, that's EGOD!

FG 2020.3.1 - iMac 27" (Mid 2010) w/ macOS 10.12.6 - Thrustmaster FCS Flight Pack + MFD Cougar
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01 Nov 2015 15:54 #26325 by Vodoun da Vinci
Welcome and Ciao!! :woohoo: :silly: :lol:

VooDoo
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02 Nov 2015 03:18 #26334 by cobe571
Hello,
I'm really happy to read your comments and your greetings. That makes me think again I am in the right place.

@enrogue: The story that led me to introduce my Bird of Prey into FlightGear dates back to 2013, when I was contacted by the French developer Helijah; which it is well known in FGFS for his prolificacy. He asked and proposed to carry my model in the FGFS. At that time I broke a foot at gym. Having not much to do I became more interested in the simulator, even if I have not experience with real flying, laws of aerodynamics and thanks to the fact that I had bought a new more powerful PC. So I start to dream. I learned very fast that "real 3D" isn't "3D for rendering".

The plane has been caught and dissected. The french developer, in half a day has created a first FDM. I was amazed and I still am today. The thing seemed dead there, however later by that time many things have happened and have been many interventions that I run both within the FDM, both on the 3D model. Helijah for his purposes changed every object-name and groups into the 3D model, so that FDM was in a french language. So the most important thing to be done was to change that. Now the model fly with a FDM totally written in english. Than I added other effects. I'm working on a new pilot that will defeat the old one.

(You can download the newest version from here - Last update today: 02/11/2015) ->
sites.google.com/site/cobe571data03/home.../Bird-of-Prey.tar.gz

I will be very happy to work with you. As you will realize the part that is missing the most are the instruments on the panel. Let me know every thing... What you like and what you dislike, and the way you think is better to improve that model. Thank you for the interest.

@thebroons: Thank you really much. I'm here to grow, collaborate and have fun as well and I like it very much.

@J Maverick 16: Another Italian that move to UK cause we really love FlightGear. That's great! Yes I thought the same... They're the most active community all around, but most important thing I love the way they make things (read: airplanes) here. Grazie del benvenuto.

@Vodoun da Vinci: Grazie :)

Even if I have no idea where I’m going or how to get there, I prefer to say yes, instead of no, and learn along the way

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02 Nov 2015 09:01 #26335 by enrogue
Ciao Patrizio,

While I can't fault Monsieur Baranger (Helijah) for his 3d modelling skills (he is far better than I), his method of creating an FDM is to slot a 3d model into a template that already works (hence you mentioned that he changed the names of lots of model parts - that so that they fit into his existing animation xml scheme)

His argument is that it's far better to get something basic & working into the FG Hangar so that other people can take over the detail work - this has happened with too many of his own models to count, so I can't fault his logic there

On the other hand, sometimes I find that his FDMs have little or nothing to do with the actual aircraft we are trying to model - for instance - you can import YASim configuration into blender & visualise the FDM.

here is a screenshot of the FDM from helijah:



and heres how it maps over the 3d model:



For comparison, here is a screenshot of my FDM:



Now I'm the first to admit that my FDM isn't complete, and I haven't done as many animations (I have only done the canopy & flight surfaces, not the gear or cockpit/instruments), which is why I haven't released it to anyone yet. But my priorities are different - I like to get the flight characteristics right first. For instance there is no proper way to do a drag rudder in YASim without using Nasal scripting (and I'm not even sure it can be done properly with nasal - the flying wings I have seen in YASim have been done with hidden rudders), and the documentation on the YF-118 that I have read didn't mention drag rudders, just a combination of elevons & rudderons - so thats how I did it.

And it works - and the surface animation directly matches the stick input (although the animation angles are too high). Now what I have read about the YF-118 was that it was stable but scary to fly. My FDM may not be completely correct but it's pretty much the same - stable but scary when you go outside the envelope (keep your airspeed above 135kts on landing) :)

So anyway - I'm not trying to criticise Helijahs work, just highlight his different methods - his FDM is incomplete, and so is mine - just in different ways. For his he has started with the FDM from his Messerschmidt P-1101, and adjusted the gear contact points & CG to match the model - his priority seems to have been getting the animations & stuff working & it looks great. My starting point was my Firebee as a framework but the FDM & flight characteristics were my priority.

I'll post my YF-118 FDM in a bit so people can take a look - but as I said it's very imcomplete apart from flight stuff
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02 Nov 2015 11:44 - 06 Nov 2015 17:34 #26341 by cobe571
Hello,

@enrogue: You're right. Using the Yasim importer in Blender we can see the FDM has nothing to do with the real shape of the airplane. I know very well the way Helijah works, and your description is exactly. He slot a 3D model into an existing template even if isn't good at all. That doesn't happens for every plane he developed. Many airplanes made by him are awesome.

Instead he "teach" that's a good point for start. Personally I don't agree with his vision that's far better to get something basic & working. That means alot of new airplanes for sure that doesn't catch reality and lack the true meaning of simulation.

It is not in my interest to criticize the way of working of Helijiah. He's talented enough to produce an airplane a day. BTW, that isn't my way, and I don't want to follow his path ATM. At least I can say thank you for his teachings and I'm very grateful for that.

Said that, I take the best from every developer I knew, using the best parts of code for my needs, cause as already said I'm not a skilled FDM developer. Lookin at your pics, your FDM seems more realistic. You said your FDM is incomplete. Well, I don't see the problem. We can mix your FDM with the old one. There you'll see gears and flying surfaces are fully functional. I agree with you that we have to get the flight characteristics right first.

I'll look forward to create with you a new fully functional FDM. Let's stay connected and do not give up on the project.

Even if I have no idea where I’m going or how to get there, I prefer to say yes, instead of no, and learn along the way

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